“Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed” – Beatrice Galilee

Beatrice Galilee

Lisbon Architecture Triennale: following budget cuts, boycotts and lukewarm reviews, Lisbon Architecture Triennale curator Beatrice Galilee defends the event that opened in the Portuguese capital last week and explains why she believes architecture exhibitions don’t always need to be about buildings (+ interview).

“Architecture exhibitions don’t deal with the real experience of architecture; they deal with the design and concept of architecture,” Galilee told Dezeen. “Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed. [This] was an opportunity to push the boundaries of what an architecture exhibition can be about and about how it could be presented.”

Legendary Portuguese architect Álvaro Siza was reported to have snubbed the opening festivities of the triennale, which deliberately avoids focussing on the country’s globally renowned older architects and which challenged the orthodox approach to the curation of architectural exhibitions.

“It’s an event for the next generations of architects in Portugal not for established practitioners. We didn’t really compromise on that,” Galilee said.

With Portugal’s economy in crisis, the event’s budget was cut by 50%. This, together with a curatorial approach that eschewed the presentation of buildings in favour of more installation-like exhibitions, left some reviewers disappointed. The Guardian’s architecture critic Oliver Wainwright described much of the work on show as “entirely baffling” while RIBA Journal editor Hugh Pearman said it “feels like a student show” and was “too much hard work”.

"Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed" - Beatrice Galilee
Triennale headquarters – photograph by Miguel de Guzmán

Galilee set out her strategy for the triennale last year in an interview with Dezeen. The traditional approach of putting architectural models on plinths was “just not good enough any more,” she said at the time.

Working alongside curators Liam Young, Mariana Pestana and José Esparza, Galilee presented a series of exhibitions that focus on public participation, rather than on exhibiting spaces and structures. Instead of showcasing the work of Portuguese masters, she chose to focus entirely on young architects and studios, a move that has prompted a “wall of silence” from established architects such as Siza.

“I think it’s a shame for the Portuguese architects involved that they don’t have the support of their masters,” she added. “But it’s not something that particularly keeps me up at night.”

Lisbon Architecture Triennale
New Publics civic stage curated by José Esparza

She also explains that her concept to not involve any famous architects was one of the reasons she was chosen as curator.

“We made the discipline of architecture our focus, not Portuguese architecture,” she said. “The discipline of architecture in Portugal is really cherished around the world. We wanted to do something different that would be appropriate for this time.”

See all our coverage of the Lisbon Architecture Triennale 2013 »

Read the full interview below:


Amy Frearson: Can you tell me about the history of the triennale?

Beatrice Galilee: The first one in 2007 was founded by a group of architects who went to the Sao Paolo Biennale and realised there weren’t any biennale structures in Portugal in architecture, any independent institutions of architecture in Portugal, so they founded the triennale. The first edition was quite traditional, it was comprised of exhibitions and a massive conference. It was quite well funded and I actually attended that as a journalist. I felt like it was quite an expensive conference, it was held in the expo area of Lisbon. It was kind of a success in the fact that it happened, but it wasn’t particularly original.

The second edition had a chief curator from the art world. Again, that was quite a major production involving a number of other institutions in Lisbon and looked at art and architecture, but the overall scene was talking about houses.

The previous two editions were quite internal, involving almost everyone on the Portuguese architecture scene. So for the third edition, they decided to have an open call and not choose somebody from within the same pool of people. They just decided to make it more international.

"Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed" - Beatrice Galilee
New Publics civic stage curated by José Esparza – photograph by Delfino Legnani

Amy Frearson: What are your aims for this one?

Beatrice Galilee: I applied with a proposal to look at all the ideas around architecture. Architecture exhibitions don’t deal with the real experience of architecture; they deal with the design and concept of architecture. So I wanted to look at all the other work and disciplines that influence architecture and disciplines that architecture is influenced by. They were really happy because I didn’t have any famous architects in my proposal or my curatorial team, so that’s one of the reasons they said they chose me, as well as because I’m British, again because they wanted it to be something more international. So I applied with that team, with Liam Young, Mariana Pestana and José Esparza. They asked for three exhibitions and a public programme as part of the proposal so it was quite defined from the beginning – what I was and what I wasn’t allowed to do.

"Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed" - Beatrice Galilee
Real and Other Fictions curated by Mariana Pestana – photograph by Delfino Legnani

Amy Frearson: Can you tell me a bit more about the theme Close, Closer?

Beatrice Galilee: As a group, the idea was to explore the alternate universe of architecture, beyond the aesthetics and proportions that architects deal with; to try and be more public and open about an exhibition. So it was an opportunity to push the boundaries of what an architecture exhibition can be about and about how it could be presented.

We’re not representing architecture, we’re presenting it; exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed. So thats the kind of big shift we’ve tried to explain to people: it’s not about demonstrating projects but about commissioning spaces and places that are used and occupied during the triennale.

Lisbon Architecture Triennale
Real and Other Fictions curated by Mariana Pestana

Amy Frearson: Can you give me some examples?

Beatrice Galilee: We made this huge stage in Casa de la Figera to host our public programme. Afterwards will be occupied by various different people and groups; there will be a skateboarding competition on it, a university public programme, a number of associations and institutions have asked to use the stage, even a horse riding group want to use it. It’s a public programme in that sense; the idea is that its about the city.

The same with The Real and Other Fictions exhibition [a series of installations that explore the former uses of an old palace]. It works on several different levels. It has to be occupied, it has to be used as architecture does. We wanted to explore not just what an architecture exhibition could be but how architecture is understood. Its not about showing ideas that happen elsewhere, its not really that kind of design.

The exhibition The Institute Effect is a kind of homage to the institution. Institutions play a huge role in the field of contemporary architecture, and the individuals behind the institutions become the people who make the decisions about the landscape of architecture. Instead of showing what it is that they do, we’re inviting them to come and make a public programme for Lisbon. So it’s kind of an embassy or season of institutions that keep putting on festivals and talks. The idea is that as a triennale, we’re not international curators that come in and leave again. It has an element of time to it, it sinks in and works for a city, works for people who take time to come back to it and make use of that intelligence and those ideas.

"Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed" - Beatrice Galilee
The Institute Effect co-curated by Dani Admiss – photograph by Miguel de Guzmán

The Future Perfect is a kind of experience, an opportunity to walk into someone else’s dream about the visual and aesthetic shape of the future, as well as the atmosphere around it. The programme is a combination of who else is responsible for architecture, what else architecture is. Can we present that in a new, innovative and exciting way?

Alongside that there were other programmes. Associated Projects was a call for anyone to be a part of the triennale, that was also really exciting because it made the triennale into a platform for other people’s projects. We had 100 associated projects, which ranged from architecture installations, a run, urban walks, coordinated clothes wash and research into the pedagogical systems of architecture. Not only did we commission the people we did, but we were also able to commission other people to talk about what they really wanted to.

Lisbon Architecture Triennale
The Institute Effect co-curated by Dani Admiss – photograph by Luke Hayes

Amy Frearson: How has the establishment reacted to the programme?

Beatrice Galilee: Because the first two triennale exhibitions had been so heavily influenced by Portuguese architecture, I think people felt that the Lisbon Architecture Triennale was an opportunity to promote Portuguese architecture to the world. I think there was an expectation that the third one would do it again. Because we made the discipline of architecture our focus, not Portuguese architecture, I think people were unsure of what their place was in this event.

Ultimately it’s an event for the next generations of architects in Portugal not for established practitioners. We didn’t really compromise on that. We thought maybe we should do an exhibition for the older generation so that they don’t get upset, but we decided that sometimes you have to take a position. We wanted to do something that would supported a different type of architecture practice, a bit more about exploration and invention than about famous names. Because I don’t think there’s really a gap in the market for exhibitions on Portuguese architects because they’re so famous and so well known. The discipline of architecture in Portugal is really cherished around the world. For example there was an exhibition of Portuguese architects in Montreal and last year at the Venice Biennale and in Milan. We wanted to do something different that would be appropriate for this time.

So in terms of animosity, its kind of more like a wall of silence from that generation rather than explicit animosity because no one has criticised me personally. That’s what I have experienced personally and I don’t know what they think.

"Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just things to be observed" - Beatrice Galilee
Future Perfect curated by Liam Young – photograph by Miguel de Guzmán

Amy Frearson: It’s rumoured that Álvaro Siza deliberately left the city because he he hadn’t been involved.

Beatrice Galilee: Yeah he went to Milan for the launch of the new Domus magazine. There was a comment in one of the exhibitions saying: “Why have you gone to Milan?” It’s a bit of a shame really. I can’t imagine British architects being like that if they’ weren’t involved in London Festival of Architecture or Italian architects behaving like that if they weren’t in the Venice Biennale. Its a shame because they’re on the board of the triennale. I think it’s a shame for the Portuguese architects involved that they don’t have the support of their masters. But it’s not something that particularly keeps me up at night.

Lisbon Architecture Triennale
Cohen Van Balen at Future Perfect – photograph by Catarina Botelho

Amy Frearson: The biggest issue affecting Portugal today is the economic crisis. How has the triennale addressed that?

Beatrice Galilee: In some ways we adjusted by simply managing to exist. The crisis-buster grants [funding given to ten projects that benefitted local communities] were really a direct response to the crisis. It was a real pleasure to see so many of them, such as an ice cream van pulling up, and all of the projects that were made with our grants that were popping up and were really excited and were working really well. It was great. The public programme is really trying to address that.

There’s one practice campaigning for Portuguese architects to stay in Portugal. And that’s their message – don’t leave, your ideas are needed here and you’re needed here. Your thinking is needed here. You can change the city, don’t leave. And thats a really powerful message from a young Portuguese practice. They want their colleagues and their collaborators to think twice before they go to leave to get work in other countries.

So of course the programme isn’t entirely devoted to discussing the crisis, but there’s loads of really exciting things that come out of it. Some people say you’re almost glorifying the crisis but it’s not the case at all. We’re trying to be really productive and proactive. I think that’s the good thing that happens when people come together, you can get inspired and get ideas and a lot of the programme is almost trying to design those moments of conversation like what can we do together, as a group, as a generation, to stop architects leaving the country.

Lisbon Architecture Triennale
Marshmallow Laser Feast at Future Perfect – photo by Delifino Legnani

Amy Frearson: Was your budget cut?

Beatrice Galilee: I think we ended up with 50% of what we started with which is pretty drastic. It is not exactly what we wanted from the beginning, but I’m just really proud of the curators and participants who slogged and slaved and fought to participate in this, and driven to do it despite all the cuts. Its like a programme that exists in spite of everything. I’m amazed that we did it at all and there are no regrets in a way, we did it, its opened and it happened. Of course there are more things that if we had more money, we would have done it, but then we could also have not done anything.

The post “Exhibitions are places to be occupied, not just
things to be observed” – Beatrice Galilee
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Plant-based water-purifying system named “Idea that will change the world”

Plant-based water-purifying system named "Idea that will change the world"

News: a water-filtration system that uses plants to extract arsenic from water supplies and allows the user to sell the poisonous substance at a profit has been voted the “Idea that will change the world” at the Global Design Forum in London today (+ interview).

Clean Water, developed by Oxford University MSc student Stephen Goodwin Honan, was voted the best of five world-changing ideas presented at the forum, held today at the Southbank Centre.

Arsenic poisoning from contaminated water has been described as the “largest mass-poisoning in history” by the World Health Organisation, causing cancers that kill an estimated 1.2 million people in the developing world each year.

Plant-based water-purifying system named "Idea that will change the world"
Arsenic-absorbing plants

Clean Water uses special, arsenic-absorbing plants, which are grown in a container. Water is pumped through the container and arsenic is trapped in a filter, and then absorbed by the plants where it poses no danger.

The filtered water is then safe to drink while the plant can be harvested each year and the arsenic chemically extracted. The plants are a naturally occurring species selected for their ability to remove arsenic from the soil they grow in.

The system costs just $10 (£6) to set up but can produce arsenic – which is widely used in industries including the semi-conductor and mobile phone industries – worth $85 (£53) per year. All parts of the system, apart from the filter and the plants, can be sourced locally from everyday materials such as plastic tubs and bamboo.

There are no running costs and no specialist expertise required to maintain the system. “Eighty percent of people in Bangladesh [where the system has been trialled] are subsistence farmers,” said Honan. “They understand how to look after plants.”

Plant-based water-purifying system named "Idea that will change the world"
Chemically extracting arsenic from the plants

The session at Global Design Forum as part of the London Design Festival was judged by designer Ilse Crawford, advertising guru Sir John Hegarty, digital entrepreneur Brent Hoberman and futurologist Christopher Sanderson.

“It seems that the design works and the economics work,” Hoberman asked Honan during a question-and-answer session. “What’s holding you back?”

“As soon as we can sign an agreement with a semi-conductor company that wants to buy ethical arsenic, that will make the difference,” Honan replied.

The panel then gave Clean Water the highest vote of the five ideas pitched and the decision was ratified by an audience vote.

Plant-based water-purifying system named "Idea that will change the world"
The system in use in Bangladesh

Honan is a FitzGerald Scholar studying an MSc in water science, policy and management at the School of Geography and the Environment at the University of Oxford in England.

Other projects pitching to win the accolade of “Idea that will change the world” included Daniel Charny’s Fixperts concept, Fairphone by Bas van Abel, Smart Citizen by Tomas Diez and SCANurse by Anil Vaidya.

Today’s conference was the second part of the Global Design Forum, following last night’s event featuring graphic designer Peter Saville in conversation with journalist Paul Morley.

Here’s an interview Dezeen editor-in-chief conducted with Stephen Goodwin Honan after the presentation:


Marcus Fairs: What is Clean Water?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: The product is an environmentally friendly, low-cost, easy-to-use filtration system that rapidly accumulates arsenic from drinking water. The arsenic is able to then be recycled for productive purposes such as semi-conductors, solar panels, cellphones, computer electronics.

The system itself employs a natural mechanism for filtration. It uses a naturally occurring plant that grows directly in the water and directly removes the arsenic from the water prior to consumption. It requires zero electricity and is fully modular and scalable for varying levels of demand.

Marcus Fairs: How much does it cost and how much can the user earn from selling the arsenic?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: It costs $10, which primarily goes towards the distribution of the [young] plants. The users then grow the plants themselves and they can use any sort of products they have lying around, buckets and pipes and things, bamboo for the stands and so on.

$85 is the raw value of the high-purity arsenic that we’re able to produce from the waste of the plant itself [per year]. The costs of the chemicals [used to extract the arsenic from the plants] is very minimal. The difficultly is the economy of scale – we need to have the right type of facilities in order to do this type of production. So ideally we’d have the recycling scheme occur in a semi-conductor fabrication lab, because they already have all the clean rooms and everything else. Currently Bangladesh has an emerging market for semi-conductor fabrication, so we’re hoping to pair those two parallel paths – the arsenic contamination and the semi-conductor industry that’s emerging.

Marcus Fairs: What type of plants are used? Are they bio-engineered?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: There’s no bio-engineering involved. They’re naturally occurring plants that already have an affinity towards arsenic. The transport mechanisms in the plant are tailored specifically towards arsenic so they don’t compete with other plants for other minerals in the water, such as iron or nitrates. So the plan itself doesn’t need any bio-engineering.

Marcus Fairs: How many people are affected by arsenic contamination of drinking water?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: There are over 150 million people worldwide who are exposed to arsenic contamination. Specifically in Bangladesh it’s anything between 35 million and 88 million people [affected] out of a total population of 156 million.

We have over 1.2 million cases of hyper-pigmentation, which is an early stage of cancer [caused by arsenic poisoning]. It’s very difficult to get accurate figures for the numbers of deaths attributable to arsenic, because they don’t do autopsies. But those are the ballpark figures. It’s a massive proportion of the population that are affected.

Marcus Fairs: You’ve completed trials in Bangladesh; what happens next?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: So we’re post-pilot project and we’re looking to scale up. We already have 500 people who’ve signed up for the next iteration of the pilot project. They actually approached us to do the next phase. We’re then looking to partner with a semi-conductor company and hopefully we can close that gap and do the recycling in plants that are on the ground [in Bangladesh] and produce the first batch of “responsible arsenic”.

Marcus Fairs: $85 is a lot of money for a family in Bangladesh.

Stephen Goodwin Honan: Yeah. The average income in Bangladesh is roughly a dollar a day. It’s subsistence-level farming. The paradigm shift is that people will be able to earn money from producing their own clean water as opposed to paying to have clean water.

That’s a really big stickiness factor for the design itself. It can appeal to the farmers because this can be a real potential revenue source for them. Ideally we’ll have a dividend scheme where we buy the filters off them after they’ve been used.

Marcus Fairs: Have you set up a company to take this forward?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: I’m still a doctoral student at the University of Oxford. I worked with a couple of MBAs at the Said Business School and I’m looking to figure out the best way to implement this. I think that having open-source access to the design of the filter is the best way forward, but controlling the recycling scheme so the collection and processing happens under a watchful eye is going to be really important. I envision a non-profit organisation that delivers the filters and a social enterprise that would then run the recycling scheme.

Marcus Fairs: So the filter is a bit of technology that sits in the tub and the plants then absorb the arsenic that’s caught in the filter?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: Yes absolutely. The filter technology should be accessible to everyone but the recycling process should be separate. Right now we don’t have a company incorporated to do that be we do have a team that’s looking at other problems such as going into old landfills and recycling metalloids that are wastefully thrown away and could be upcycled.

Marcus Fairs: So this idea could be spread laterally to recycle different types of pollutants?

Stephen Goodwin Honan: Oh yeah. The idea itself can be used in many applications. The landfills are what we’re looking at next. We’re looking at value chains, how you can add value to recycling different supplies that are in demand by industry.

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“Idea that will change the world”
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Eileen Gray was “disappointed that she was forgotten” – Zeev Aram

Interview: forty years after he first met her, London design retailer Zeev Aram has launched a website dedicated to the work of his late friend, the modernist designer Eileen Gray.  In this interview, Aram describes his working relationship with the elderly designer who, despite being frail and almost forgotten, could ” see with one eye what many architects couldn’t see with two eyes” (+ slideshow).

Eileen Gray De-Stijl table
De Stijl side table, 1922

Zeev Aram is the owner of the Aram Store, which he launched in 1964 on London’s fashionable Kings Road. He introduced the work of many legendary designers to the UK, including Marcel Breuer, Achille and Pier Giacomo Castiglioni, Le Corbusier and Eileen Gray, who he first met in 1973.

Aram says that Gray, who was revered in the 1920s and 30s for her modernist furniture and architectural projects, was almost forgotten by the time he first encountered her and was “a bit bemused that somebody was interested in her work.”

Eileen Gray Bibendum chair
Bibendum armchair, 1926

Working with Gray, who was in her early-90s at the time, Aram began to reproduce some of her most famous pieces, including the Bibendum armchair, the E1027 table, and the Tube Light.

The two became close friends and Gray would regularly visit Aram at his showroom to talk about design. “Working with her was very, very appealing because she knew exactly her mind,” recalls Aram. “With one eye she saw what many architects I know and admire couldn’t see with two eyes.”

Tube Light by Eileen Gray for Aram
Tube Light, 1927

A contemporary of Le Corbusier, Marcel Breuer and J.J.P. Oud, Gray was a pioneer of tubular steel and glass furniture and her architecture projects, including two houses in the Alpes Maritimes in southeast France, are now considered among the most outstanding examples of modernism from the interwar period.

Aram feels that Gray deserves to be considered alongside “all the other big shots, like Le Corbusier, Mies, Breuer,” but because she chose a “quiet, modest life she was not included.”

Before she died in 1976, Gray offered Aram the exclusive license to reproduce her products, but he now struggles to find the energy to battle the copyists who continually produce imitations. “I’m not prepared to spend my life with lawyers and solicitors and in courtrooms to prove that we have the license and these people are charlatans,” he says.

E1027 table by Eileen Gray
E1027 table, 1927

The new website, www.eileengray.co.uk, features images and information about Gray’s products and a timeline of her extraordinary life, which is currently being made into a feature film called The Price of Desire starring Orla Brady and musician Alanis Morissette.

We recently interviewed legendary German design Richard Sapper, who has launched a website documenting his career, while Richard Rogers spoke to us ahead of a retrospective exhibition of his work and claimed that architecture is losing sight of its civic responsibility – see more interviews.

Here’s a full transcript of our interview with Zeev Aram:


Alyn Griffiths: When did you first meet Eileen Gray?

Zeev Aram: I met her in 1973. I think she was 92 or 93 and she was retired many years and living in her flat in Paris, but I actually met her here in London.

Eileen Gray

Alyn Griffiths: Did you meet with her to discuss licensing her products?

Zeev Aram: No, not at all. Actually, my knowledge of her was quite thin. I remembered reading about her many years earlier when I was in college and she was just part of the milieu of art deco artists and designers. I must admit I didn’t really remember anything about her.

But then, in the late sixties there was a very interesting article written by Joseph Rykwert in Domus magazine about her and that triggered my curiosity about this particular artist that nobody wrote about, nobody talked about, nobody had seen her work. Neither had I, and then in the beginning of 1973 there was a small exhibition that my friend, the architect Alan Irvine, mounted at the Heinz Gallery that used to be the RIBA gallery in Portman Square and he said come along, it’s a little exhibition but it’s very interesting. So I went to see it but there were only pictures, and about three or four pieces of furniture and one of her rugs, so not very impressive and I looked at the pieces and the photographs and then I asked him how can I get in touch with her because I think her work is very interesting and very important but seems to somehow slip the consciousness of everybody, including me.

Eileen Gray interior

Alyn Griffiths: What did you think was so important about it?

Zeev Aram: Well, when you see something that triggers your curiosity and interest, that’s a good enough reason to pursue it further. I didn’t know what would come out of it, I didn’t know if she would be at all interested in talking to me, but I did know that what I saw was good. I’d been around the design world for a while and introduced a few things to the country when we opened the store on the Kings Road in Chelsea, so I just wanted to see what’s going to happen.

E1027 House interior
E1027 house interior

Alyn Griffiths: What was she like as a person?

Zeev Aram: Descriptive wise, she was a frail little lady. She was wearing glasses and one glass was black because she got injured in her eye and couldn’t see in one eye. Very frail and very elegant, but not in an ostentatious kind of way. She was very shy but at the same time she knew exactly what’s what.

She used to come over to visit her niece, the painter Prunella Clough, who would drive Eileen to us and we would sit and have tea and talk about little things, always more generally about what do I think about design and the way it is going and the way architecture is becoming very anonymous and nothing to do with the person who designed it.

It becomes a statement of structure, not a statement of the person who designed it. When she retired, she lived in the Roquebrune flat for many years and she was always doing little models and mock ups and plans, so she never retired from the work, as such, she retired from the world of the work. When she visited we would wander around the showroom and she would ask about the new materials and the new techniques like injection moulding and ABS plastics. She wanted to understand what was going on.

Roattino by Eileen Gray / Aram
Roattino, 1931

Alyn Griffiths: Did she ever talk about the past and her relationships with some of the great architects she has worked with?

Zeev Aram: Not really because actually, don’t forget we’re talking about a lady of 93. Her interest was never waning, but her energy was and her stamina was. So we constantly dealt with the work in hand, what we were doing. Whenever I raised something like that, she would say “that was a long time ago” and what that meant was, actually that’s not interesting to talk about now.

She was very much involved and she knew her value, but you see – Joseph Rykwert said in his article that she was completely left in the sidelines, and everybody rushed ahead and the last person actually to pay homage to her was Le Corbusier because in the late thirties he included her work in an exhibition he did. And since then, until this article as Rykwert said, it’s surprising that nobody has said, “Here’s somebody that’s really important”. Meanwhile of course, we have all the other big shots, like Corbusier, Mies, Breuer etc, and she’s not included.

Bibendum chair and Tube light by Eileen Gray
E1027 table, Bibendum chair and Tube light

Alyn Griffiths: Obviously you think she should be?

Zeev Aram: Not only that she should be. Not mega importance like Corbusier, who did the Unité d’Habitation, which is a very important statement architecturally. He knew how to major in publicity. But because of her modesty, maybe because of her style of life, she chose the quiet, the modest. If you are modest and you don’t shout, nobody asks you to do anything. So that was what she was.

Working with her was very, very appealing because she knew exactly her mind. With one eye she saw what many architects I know and admire couldn’t see with two eyes.

She was so precise, so accurate and so confident. For her to sit on a chair such as Bibendum and say to me it should be 3cm wider. I mean, I’ve worked with many architects – nobody would even – yes they’d measure, maybe it needs to be a bit wider, let me see. Anyway, she was quite an interesting person.

Eileen Gray Bibendum chair
Bibendum chair, 1926

Alyn Griffiths: What was your working relationship like?

Zeev Aram: We were just working on the furniture because she was actually a bit incredulous. She wasn’t taking it as a joke, but she was a bit bemused that somebody was interested in her work.

She wouldn’t say it, although after several times meeting I managed to pull out a little bit because when we got to know each other she relaxed more and there was a bit of small talk and so on. I did sense that she was somewhat disappointed, but not in a sort of a big way – ‘I’m a great person and nobody thinks of my name’, but disappointed that she was forgotten. And yet, she knew – I mean J.J.P. Oud invited her to Holland and then they made a whole issue of her work and Rietveld said that she was one of the greatest and still the world just passed by. She was disappointed with a small ‘d’. Without the content, that’s the way life is, she had her wonderful years, she had wonderful fame, she had a wonderful working life – with ups and downs, and that’s that.

By the time you become ninety and almost a recluse, you adopt to a certain view of the world and she wasn’t expecting anything. So when Alan told her that this guy was interested to meet her and do something with her designs, she apparently shrugged her shoulders and said, ‘Me? My work? Who’d be interested in my work?’

Eileen Gray brick screen
Brick screen

Alyn Griffiths: Which of her pieces is your favourite?

Zeev Aram: I love them all because they’re like your children. Each one has got its own character, you like each one because of what it is and each one has got its own inherent function and beauty. So no, I have no favourites but I do like when I see three of the E1027 tables side by side. I think this is the most wonderful composition, just to see how one differs from the other and how she resolved the solution in the problem of the different tables, it’s wonderful.

Alyn Griffiths: You worked with Eileen until her death in 1976 and in that time she decided that you were going to have the world license to produce her designs exclusively. Was that important to you?

Zeev Aram: Yes, very. It’s very important, not because it makes me recognised and makes me important, it’s important because I think we still haven’t quite finished but we are getting there. When I decided that I would like to introduce the designs her name was not at all on the front line of anything design, worldwide I’m talking about, not the person. And I asked friends of mine, good friends, architects and designers to tell me about Eileen Gray. What do you know about Eileen Gray? Nine-and-a-half out of ten were sucking their teeth, saying the name reminds me of something but I can’t put my finger on it. I’m paraphrasing, of course.

Now, 30 years have passed: it took Zeev Aram to make it happen – I’m sure that there would have been someone else but there wasn’t, the fact is that we did it and now you are interviewing me not because she’s an anonymous person, but because she’s an important design person.

Eileen Gray
Occasional Tables, 1927

Alyn Griffiths: I wanted to ask you about having the exclusive license and how difficult it is to look after that and to make sure people aren’t imitating these designs.

Zeev Aram: Yes, the table I mentioned before, the E1027, at last count there was something like 120 companies producing them. All over the place. You see, companies like Herman Miller and Vitra and Cassina are making big investments in these things and even so they cannot prevent people copying some of the designs. I think it is very frustrating, I have a whole pile of them, of people, and I just think we have won a few cases in the States and Germany and so forth. But life is too short. I’m not prepared to spend my life with lawyers and solicitors and in courtrooms to prove that we have the license and these people are charlatans. Because I tell you, there are police forces all over the world trying to prevent crime, and it still happens.

People who want the proper thing, they’ll come to us. People recognise it, people are prepared to pay for it. Because people who understand quality that’s the way it is. People who want the cheaper stuff, they buy the cheaper stuff and if it doesn’t perform and it breaks down it’s part of life. You buy cheap, you get cheap. And it’s not because I’m bitter about it, I’m not. It’s a fact of life. After my last court case, which was some years ago in the States, I said never again will I go through anything against any company. Although we won the case in the federal court, all expenses paid etcetera, I am not prepared. It’s too much. Too much of me going into that.

Eileen Gray

Alyn Griffiths: You’ve just launched a website dedicated to Eileen Gray’s work. Why did you decide that now was the time to do that?

Zeev Aram: This is not a late show, not a late, late show. It’s a damn late response. It was just one thing after another. We kept on saying it’s nearly ready, its nearly there. Years of saying this! So you know what, Halleluiah that it’s done. Now it’s there and we’ll make the best of it. It’s still not quite right, it needs some adjustments done. But at least it’s there for anyone who is interested in Eileen Gray and wants to know about her.

Alyn Griffiths: And what about the movie? Do you think that’s going to help bring her to the attention of a wider audience?

Zeev Aram: I’m sure, because you know people do like to see a nice cinema movie and so forth. And don’t forget the big retrospective exhibition at the Pompidou that will be opening very soon in Ireland, at the IMMA. Very nice. The same exhibition comes over to Ireland. And from then I think it’s being negotiated to go over to the States and from there it probably goes to Tel Aviv.

So by putting her work in a more comprehensive way, not just little samples, on the world stage in these important venues, it’s bound to enhance her reputation. And I mean there are quite a number of books written about her as you probably know and so it is all helping her reputation. She’s not God, but if we talk about all these big names in the design world I think Eileen Gray should be one of them. You know, because she is that important as far as I’m concerned.

Eileen Gray

Alyn Griffiths: What is it about her work that is so unique and so special?

Zeev Aram: It’s not that bend, its not that weld, its not that proportion, it’s not that function – it’s none of that. You must ask why do I think that the sunlight is wonderful, that the sunset is so wonderful. And you can’t start enumerating them, listing them.

I really feel, and I’m not joking, I feel I have a blessed life that I’m able to walk between not only other designs which we have in the showroom, but to walk between Eileen Gray’s work and to see all the time something fantastic and something interesting and something which gives me great delight. And it’s not because it makes money you know, it’s not the money value here.

It’s the satisfaction to see the person who has been able to create such wonderful stuff and to anticipate what is going through our mind today, to anticipate this 50 or 60 years ago. And that’s what makes it great.

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she was forgotten” – Zeev Aram
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